We pick up where we left off in Issue 5 with a continuation of our interview with C-Squat’s Bill Cashman on the subject of squatting in NYC 
Are most residents at C-Squat living there as a kind of social statement or is it more out of necessity?I already told you about the UHAB (Urban Homesteading Assistance Board) thing so most people there are technically not squatting. It’s now a question of low rent and affordable housing, however your question is still relevant. It’s necessity because many cannot afford other places with higher rent. It’s also the feel of community, family and home that keeps people hanging around. Just the fact that these buildings exist is a politically-charged social statement. No matter what they turn into, right now they continue to stand as monuments that opposed the sky-rocketing rents and gentrification of the neighborhood. Funnily enough, I always enjoy the mathematical equation that squatters often start gentrification...but that's yet another story. So to recap: it’s both, watch the video, community, home, fuck the system, spray paint on the walls, etc.
Once things go legal, it’s no longer going to be the story of necessity but of who can pull their shit together enough to keep the building running. Not just the physical building but the community that has grown within its walls. It’s like a big ass dirty ship about to set sail and if one person pokes a hole in the bottom, the whole damn boat is going to sink. There are dark days ahead, more stormy clouds gathering, and there are still fucking sirens singing in the basement.
Do C-Squatters still get hassled by police or anyone else for being there? In current times? Not really. We have to really bring it upon ourselves. They don't care that we live here. It’s more than half legal at this point anyway. That was not always the case though. Funny story - two officers came up to the building the other day talking about how awesome it was we were buying it. They were really nice considering that two years ago one of them got a donut thrown at them during an outdoor concert. The last time they came in on their own accord was during a party where kids were all over the street puking, smashing 40 oz.'s outside the front door, sitting on cars, etc. Y'know, generally blowing up our spot. That's when it’s no longer OK to attract that sort of attention. But as far as living goes...they don't care, or at least don't give us any problems. We've had some disputes where they've had to come and they are aware of the situation and have been, I thought, very respectful.
However, when people do try to start new squats, they sure get hassled. Our friends started opening a few buildings in Brooklyn recently. Unfortunately, they are all very short-lived. But c'est la vie, so it goes and so does she.
Some cops, however do still hassle the squatter punk shows in the park. There's a whole long history between the neighborhood, Tompkins Square Park, the homeless, and the band shell hosting free concerts and political rallies. In recent years they've tried to eliminate these events, as the 1988 police riots is still apparently a sore subject. I'm not personally against the police, but when anyone mis-uses their position of authority to target and bully - they are the bad guys. And I've seen NYPD do some really shady, not-OK things.
At the same time : I've also been at shows in other parks where the police actually kept the show from getting shut down by the Parks Department but I wasn't allowed to thank them or let people know that they were the ones who kept it going, despite knowing it was basically an anti-police (the bad ones!) rally. So much for freedom of speech working both ways, right? They were doing their jobs and y’know what? There's no one to turn off my microphone in this interview so, here's to progress in relationships of all kinds everywhere!
Speaking of the park, the travelling crusty kids in the park get holy hell rained down upon them by the NYPD though. Fire and brimstone. And they're just hanging out in Tompkins Square Park most of the time over on crusty row. There's a really great blog that tells their stories that you may be interested in as well:
http://crustypunks.blogspot.com/ They sure get a lot of grief.
I'm reversing your question. Do we get hassled by anyone for 'not-squatting?'
In turn, we get a lot of grief for not being 'a real squat' anymore (not by cops, btw). Again, the criticisms of disappointment and of expectation. I remember meeting a group of young kids sleeping down by the East River. When one of them heard I lived at See, he looked me up and down, then shot a very unimpressed look and verbally jabbed: "yeah whatever, RENT-PAYER" . I've seen summer squatters camped on Avenue C yelling at people going by for being yuppie rent payers. Instead of arguing with them about being rude or other such philosophical debates, I got those people they were yelling at to come inside the building. They were friends of mine and friends of the building, they just didn’t happen to look all upper crust. We sat inside for a moment, leaving the campers that wanted to come in camped outside, then went back outside. They apologized. It was the best silent argument I ever won.
Point being is that in recent years I think I've seen the building get more grief recently from kids or from internet keyboard warriors than from anyone else. Again, I love George Romero movies but this a story that is trying to be one of construction and survival and of going forward. Not of more invited self-destruction. At the same time, that's certainly involved in the recipe here too, but I think a lot of kids won't understand this concept until they get older.
So yeah. Compromised victory. The people get their buildings but lose the title ‘squat’. You can stay one thing until you lose it and it’s taken away from you or you have to evolve and progress. What's more important? The ‘means’ or the ‘end to the means’: the goal? That's not an easy question to answer universally, as it’s up to the individual. Someone should refer to the punk rock rule book for the call here. I lost my copy. Depending on how you look at life, where you are in life, or how involved you are in this situation - you will see different shades of what you find to be romantic and what you ultimately find is not romantic.
What about tourists? Anyone ever come by, taking photos?I love the tourists! The nice ones who don't leave a mess, that is. In fact - I've become friends with two different pairs of Australians this year alone! It’s funny to walk out of your house to find younger kids taking pictures of the building. A lot of the times, I'd invite them inside to take a tour of the amenities. Sometimes it’s a brief encounter and sometimes it sparks friendships that last for years. With the Aussies - man they were SO fun. Great bunch of guys. Tom Snowdon and Dale Jonathan World and Bernard. Great guys. They really do say the word "massive" alot. It was the same story really. Australia, airport, plane, airport, cab/train, hostel, go to get pictures at C-skwat. They all ended up crashing at C-Squat, just separated by a couple of months. I hope they visit again soon, I massively miss them!
I'm surprised a lot of ‘tourists’ come here snapping pictures but when they ask for other things to check out they often-times have not heard of ABC NO RIO. I guess that is because of the popularity of LOC,CV,Morning Glory,SFH, etc but I'm always very happy to point ‘em in the right direction. "want to see something that's way more impressive then this building? Go walk about 12 blocks south and a few blocks west....154 Rivington..". Massive respect!
Is anyone from the original group of people who started C-Squat still involved with the squat?No. Well, kind of. Yes. There was an original crew but they didn't stay for the long haul. Immediately afterward Brett and Popeye moved in. I typed up an answer but Popeye and Diane answered it better for you. This is from Diane:
As far as original and not original goes, I've always really liked what Popeye has to say about it. To paraphrase, C-Squat has always been about making a home and creating a space for things that couldn't necessarily happen elsewhere. It would be impossible to count all of the people who've poured their time and sweat and blood into this place, just like it would be impossible to count all of the people who've poured into and out of this place. It's had a million different lives, and they've all been made up by the community of individuals living here at the time. There's been a constant flux in that community, as people come and go, so it doesn't really make sense to talk about ‘original’ unless you mean the three people who originally opened the building. They're all doing other things with their lives now, but they helped make ours here possible.
The point is: it's a living space. It's never been static - there's no one moment in time you could point to and say, ‘that's C-Squat’, more than any other. So C-Squat's real legacy is its continuity, continuing evolution and life as a DIY space. I personally think C Squat will be ‘original’ until the day that money changes hands to make someone a resident.Do you think squatting is on the rise in New York or is it a culture that will eventually die out?I do not think squatting is on the rise in NYC and I do not know what will happen. Stay tuned to picturethehomeless.org . Great folks.
To shift the topic slightly, ‘punk’ is thriving in New York City. A lot of the spaces are in Brooklyn, as there's more room to move around out there. There's so many great young scenes popping up. Like the Raw/Bung punx. Perdition/Dawn of Humans/Cervix. Or the kids that were centered around the Forts & 131 (Marvin Berry & the New Sound, Stupid Party, The Measure SA, Death First, The Homewreckers). They are the best kids. The nicest. Then there’s 538 and all the venues Todd P. helped start: Surreal Estate, Chris over at East Rev, the dirty reggae parties, Second Chance. Amelia really shook things up over at ABC NO RIO for quite awhile. Oh & the House of Yes....really incredible stuff going on there.
There are a lot of the real exciting and artistically creative things that are going on right now. I wish we could be more of a part, but we are in this weird downtime/struggle with stagnation. Besides, a lot of people from these scenes don’t really like See Skwat... and for good reason! But that's ok and that’s not important in the bigger picture. Regardless, I sure don't know about the future of squatting but shit is so awesome here right now! I read a recent scene report in MRR that kind of put down the current NYC scene but god damn, look around .... things are going off. It’s just kind of a shame that often-times people stay to their specific scenes and cliques and don't really appreciate the other scenes going on. That or they just can't get along long enough to. I personally found a happy medium in this weird invisible gourd worshipping cult I joined 9 years ago. It’s called ‘Just the Best Kubris Party’. Check it out!
We hear you guys still have some pretty wild parties/gigs at C-squat, tell us more.
Yup, it's true. We just had an awesome after party for Time's Up and their Halloween Critical Mass Ride. The whole ride rode through the city for hours then ended at the steps of our building. It was great to get all kinds of costumed weirdos in for the night. Many of which had never been here before so it was this fresh, positive vibe throughout the night. While there were some drawbacks, it was an overall awesome event and I thank Bill from Umbrella Squat for his vision and his determination for making it happen.
We had a really amazing art show last December, curated by Diane Rohem. It was beautiful. So many talented artists contributed and donated their time, turning our space into a beautiful art gallery for one day. There was spoken word by Penny Arcade, a performance by FLY, and capped off by a troupe of enchanting in-house resident fire dancers called LUMINISIS.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/violentgrind/sets/72157622823958611/ Are parties and gigs at C-squat open to all or are they just for squatters and people connected with the C-Squat in some way?Depends on how public the event is and who is performing. Mostly they are in-house and for friends and associates of the house. The next waves after that are fans of the bands that came out of this space, then fans of the draw of this place. Some of us would like to expand to have different kinds of parties and events and not stay stuck in the stereotype. I think FLY is working on something. Stab and Gabriel each threw electronic techno parties over the years. I'm convinced to get a circus punk night to happen sometime soon. NYC Ska-favorites THE SLACKERS just did something here.
I think the band that reps the current spirit really well is THE DOG THAT BITES EVERYONE. John Dolan, Brett and Shayne from the house plus Charlie from Always Sunny in Philadelphia, no wait - Jack Jahrling. John has been overlord of the basement and park shows for years and years. WIthout that guy, these shows probably would not happen.
How do things work day-to-day at the squat – electricity? gas? heat? food?The electricity now works like any other apartment building. Gas and heat too. Food? Some have food stamps. Some cook. Some just drink PBR, no solids. I personally enjoy pizza. I think this is a good time to plug my friend Colin's DIY zine, Slice Harvester. He is trying to review EVERY slice of pizza in all of New York City. If he accomplishes that , I believe that it will be more impressive than the sordid history of See Skwat. www.sliceharvester.com.
For Part I of the interview head to
http://www.t-squat.com/issue5/tsquat_squats_issue5.html
